Tom Latham & Rassie van der Dussen speak ahead of New Zealand vs South Africa

Tom Latham & Rassie van der Dussen speak ahead of New Zealand vs South Africa in the ICC Cricket World Cup 2023.

[Reporter:]

Welcome to Pune. You've had a couple of days to reflect on the happenings of Dharamsala in that high-octane, nail-biting finish that we had. What are some of the learnings and how do you look forward to this game against South Africa?

[Tom Latham:]

Yeah, as you said, reflecting on what was an amazing game of cricket, obviously disappointing to come out on the wrong side of it. But I think if you look at the game as a whole, we did a lot of good things really well. We were obviously put under pressure, or a lot of pressure at the start, the way Australia came out to bat but I think the way we're able to pull ourselves back into the game and we obviously understood pretty quickly that it was a pretty decent surface and you know it's going to be a high par score. They probably got a little bit more than what we wanted towards the back end but I think we obviously put ourselves in a position towards the end of the game to win the game which is I guess what you want in these World Cup games is to put yourself in a position where you can win and when you're chasing something like 400, you kind of need everything to go well.

From a batting point of view, I thought we did a fantastic job. We were one shot away from being on the other side. A lot of positives. We obviously reflected from a bowling point of view as well and hopefully we can put those learnings into practice tomorrow.

[Reporter:]

Just going on to that 388 that we kind of were chasing in that game, coming up against a side which has come close to 400 a couple of times in this tournament. Does that kind of make you look at strategy around how to utilise the bowlers a bit better and stuff like that as well?

[Tom Latham:]

Yeah, I think it's just recognising situations as best you can and trying to be proactive as much as we can as well from a bowling point of view and I guess from a field placement point of view as well. Like every team we do our scouting, trying to find weaknesses from a batting point of view from South Africa, but as you said they're a team that's running pretty hot at the moment. They've got some guys in form from a batting point of view. So again, it's going to be another great challenge. And we have come to a different venue and we've got to adapt as quick as we can to this ground here in Pune.

[Reporter:]

Jimmy Neesham has given you a good headache to have in the sense that he comes into the side and plays quite a vital role in that game. What happens with selection and stuff like that if Chapman is fine for selection as well?

[Tom Latham:]

Yeah, I think from a selection point of view, we've obviously just arrived here. We've got a few guys to, I guess, to get through a few fitness tests and I guess once we train, we'll have a clearer idea of what the 11 looks like - so fingers crossed all those guys can get through a bit of work today at training and be ready to go tomorrow.

[Reporter:]

I just wanted to touch upon Glenn Phillips, the bowler. He's taken some huge wickets in the tournament so far. So how does the team sees his role as a bowler and how he goes about developing his skills?

[Tom Latham:]

Yeah, he's been fantastic for us. He's obviously had sort of limited opportunity with the ball compared to the other two guys. But he's an all-rounder for us who obviously has a lot of power with the bat, but also can bowl some handy overs. And it's nice having the option with the ball spinning the other way. And I think when he's bowled, he's obviously taken his opportunity really well. I think you look back to the Australia game a couple of games ago where we were under a lot of pressure and for him to bowl 10 overs from one end and get three for 30 odd, I think it was, was obviously a fantastic effort on a wicket that wasn't necessarily offering a lot.

So, I guess it just shows he's a really hard worker, someone that hasn't been bowling off spin for long. He's a keeper from growing up. So, I guess that just shows that the work that he's put in for him to get a few rewards throughout this tournament has been great and I'm sure he'll be looking forward to hopefully getting an opportunity again at some point with the ball and hopefully he can keep showing us the skills that he's got?

[Reporter:]

Can you give us any updates on Lockie Ferguson's achilles and also is there any update on Kane (Williamson)?

[Tom Latham:]

Yeah, just as I said before, there's Lockie, Kane and Mark Chapman. We'll obviously get through hopefully a bit of work today and then we'll see how they pull up from a selection point of view. But yeah, obviously, Lockie went off in the last game with a bit of achilles' niggle, so fingers crossed he'll be fine for tomorrow.

[Reporter:]

And then, I don't know what you gained from our intro but it was about the rugby world cup and just kind of the sentiment around South Africa and obviously they're taking a lot of inspiration from that. I know you guys didn't win it but what can you get from the All Blacks if anything to kind of motivate yourselves?

[Tom Latham:]

Yeah, that was obviously a fantastic game of rugby. Obviously, again, unfortunate to be on the wrong side, but I guess you look at the All Blacks as a whole, they've played some great rugby throughout this World Cup. I think you look at the final and I guess a Kiwi way is we look to scrap the whole way, obviously faced with a little bit of adversity in terms of being down to 14 men, but I guess it's something we talk about in our team as well, is we scrap right to the end regardless of the situation. I think we showed that the other night as well, taking the game as deep as we can and if we can do that, then hopefully that gives ourselves a good chance, you know towards the back end of the game.

[Reporter:]

Such a long tournament, as a team how do you go about picking at the right time? And in that context, the previous two games, would you say are the blessing in disguise?

[Tom Latham:]

Yeah, I think we just focus on every game as it comes, really. Every game is just as important as the next. And even though we've come off the back of a couple of losses, we've actually done a lot of good stuff as well. You know, it's obvious, it's easy to point out the, I guess, the negatives and things that you may want to do better. But we’ve come close in both those games, especially the last one. And, you know, when you have some tight turnarounds, some quick turnarounds, it's about trying to obviously recognising the areas that you want to get better, but then also focusing on the things that we do well. And if we do that, then as I said, hopefully we give ourselves a good chance towards the backing of each game.

[Reporter:]

The situation in South Africa is that not too many people have noticed the Cricket World Cup because of the Rugby World Cup. And I just wonder, is something similar true in New Zealand? You guys have been able to kind of sail under the radar until now?

[Tom Latham:]

There's obviously two, you know, pretty special sporting events going on at the moment. Obviously, one's just finished, but we certainly feel that the support that we have back home. It might be slightly different to other countries around the world, but we certainly feel the support back home. Obviously, a few people here as well, which is nice.

Yeah, we certainly understand the country is right behind us and hopefully we can, I guess, make them proud as much as we can.

[Reporter:]

South Africa's blueprint is fairly obvious for all to see. I mean, they're basically playing T20 cricket with 30 overs to get there. So early wickets is obviously the key perhaps to disturbing that blueprint and obviously Lockie (Ferguson) would be important but are you thinking that bowl your strike bowlers up front, early wickets might be the key tomorrow?

[Tom Latham:]

Yeah, I think whatever game you play, not just against South Africa, I think it's important. You know, wickets are really important. That's the way to stem the run rate as best you can by taking wickets and that's not just at the top, that's through the middle as well. And as you said, we've seen South Africa, they're running really hot at the moment. And they've got a lot of power throughout the whole line-up. Certainly, wickets are going to be important. And I guess it's just trying to understand the match-ups as best you can. And we certainly know we've got a world-class bowling attack as well and you know when they're on song there and you know that's certainly very threatening so and if they, I guess bowl to the best of their ability then you know we'll certainly give ourselves a good chance and be it as I said on the back of that. South Africa has a lot of batters that are in form and it's going to be a great contest tomorrow.

[Reporter:]

South Africa's chasing against Pakistan. Do you see any kind of opening for yourself in that kind of situation as South Africa to chase, set up a target? Do you see anything different from what South Africa had done before while batting first?

[Tom Latham:]

Yeah, I guess whether you're batting first, whether you're bowling first, you've got to do it well. I guess you look at games in the past here, whether dew is going to be a factor. I guess we're going to come up with the decision of what's going to be best for us in terms of how we want to approach this game. So, yeah sometimes you could look at the opposition and what they want to do, but for us, it's always been about focusing on us and what's best for us as a team. So, we'll obviously have those discussions during training and come up with those decisions.

[Reporter:]

South Africa haven't beaten New Zealand at a World Cup since 1999. Five losses on the trot since then? I know you were only part of one. But has there been any chat within the team about why that could be and how you guys want to rectify that?

[Rassie van der Dussen:]

It feels like that question could have been asked a few days ago as well - with regards to Pakistan. So no, no chat really about that. I mean, that's all in the past. We don't really carry any of that with us. Tomorrow is a new game. Two pretty strong teams on form going against each other. So, it should be a really good day.

[Reporter:]

Just personally, how have you found the World Cup in your own form? Are you pleased with where you're at?

[Rassie van der Dussen:]

Yeah, I would say I'm relatively pleased. I've had innings or two where I've contributed. And I think the really positive thing about our batting lineup at the moment is different guys are contributing. Obviously, Quinny is leading run scorer and Aiden is right there. But around them we've had different people contributing in different times and that's really reassuring for us as a batting unit to know that on different days, different guys might fill up different roles and carry the responsibility. But yeah, I'm reasonably pleased that as we hopefully go into the business end of the tournament now, you want to be really at 100%. I think most of our guys are in a pretty good space.

[Reporter:]

I realise it's part of the process that you take things one day at a time and one game at a time. But is there a thought somewhere that this tomorrow's game is about who plays who in the semis?

[Rassie van der Dussen:]

None at all. I think the beauty of this World Cup has been that there's been some upsets. It's really difficult to predict who's going to be there and how the results are going to unfold. So certainly, in our camp, there's no real chat about it. We really have been good in taking it one game at a time and it's no different for tomorrow. It's, there’s a much stronger focus on focusing on our processes and how we want to go about that. We've fallen short at times and we've been really good at times. And sort of shutting out all the World Cup permutation, if I can call it that, we've been really good at.

[Reporter:]

You guys have spoken quite a lot about not carrying baggage, you're talking about things like not beating teams since 99 or whatever, but how do you actually do that when people mention it to you? Do you just ignore stuff or how do you actually not carry the baggage?

[Rassie van der Dussen:]

No, I suppose it's about just acknowledging and accepting it. After that Dutch game, we took a lot of flak from back home and certainly in the media as well. There's no use in delving too much into it. You've just got to accept it and move on. From our side, you realise that there's people at home and fans that's been really scarred by previous performances of South Africa and World Cups. And you can't really criticize them for feeling that way, for criticism to come from, I suppose, a place of hurt where they've seen that movie before. But personally, and I think it goes for about probably most of the people in our squad and management team, that we haven't lived that. So, it's not really applicable to us. It's not something that's obviously watching growing up is things that happen and they love replaying the scenes whenever we take the field and that's fine. But it's really not something that's affecting us, it's part of history but it's certainly not part of us as a team.

[Reporter:]

Do you as a side take any inspiration from the Springboks?

[Rassie van der Dussen:]

Massively. We were all watching it at 2.30 in the morning. The final, actually the previous three games, we were all there in the team room watching. We take massive inspiration from them, massive learnings, and lessons from them as a team, how they go about what they do, what they stand for, the purpose they play for. And I think Siya mentioned it in a press conference that if you're not from South Africa, you don't really understand what it means or what sporting achievements mean for the people at home and for us. So, we definitely take massive inspiration from that.

We know a lot of those players personally as well. A lot of the guys in the team knows - has friends that plays in that team and to see what they're able to achieve is just really inspirational. And I think the real realization for us is that we’re no different. Yes, we haven't won World Cups, but if we do manage to get there at some time, at some stage, it will be really an honour for us to be mentioned in the same sentence of those guys.

[Reporter:]

Temba mentioned that you guys have a template when you when you bat first and you don't really have a template for un chases. Could you just expand on that and explain to the layman what exactly is that template when you bat first and what needs to happen when you bat second?

[Rassie van der Dussen:]

I think, yes, we have a “blueprint” in inverted commas, but it's about fundamentals of building a 50-over innings. It's been big for us to set the base at the top and really give guys like Markram and David [Miller] the platform to be at their most destructive. And that's something that's been working well for us. And the challenge is for us to emulate that when we're batting second. We did, obviously against Netherlands, we didn't manage that. The other night we managed it at stages. But I think to see it in that sense, it's almost a positive for us because we've been so good at batting first. Once or twice that you don't get the chase right, then it gets highlighted. Whereas if you look at the past 18 to 24 months we've actually chased pretty well. So, yeah, I suppose that people are always going to look for the negatives and that's fine. But yeah, I suppose the challenge for us is to emulate what we do batting first when there's a score to chase.

[Reporter:]

You were there in 2019 and it was quite a different situation, the same stage back then and now. I was just wondering what's sort of - is there anything different within this group, maybe like, you know, psychologically or whatever it might be? Is there something different from now than it was then?

[Rassie van der Dussen:]

Yeah, I think there's definitely something different. I think the situations we faced in the past four years, whether it be COVID, whether it be Black Lives Matter, SJN, various political stories that we've had back home and had to manage as a team has really forced us to pull together as a team. That's the one aspect.

And really, I suppose, the effect of us being really tight off the field as well, really knowing each other intimately. And the other fact is, as a group, we've been actually playing together a very long time. If you look at this - almost between any two members of the squad, there's a real connection. You can find some sort of connection somewhere. If you look at the batters, we've been batting together for a long time. If you look at, for example, Quinny and KG, they've been playing together since young. Same with Temba, same with myself, Reeza. So, I think there's definitely something different in this team. Of course, when you're in it, I suppose you just, you do feel it. And I think we're blessed in a sense that we're in a great space now. We've had to deal with quite a lot of controversy over the last three years. So that's really put us in good stead.

[Reporter:]

You spoke about the chase aspect of the matches and I want to go back to that Pakistan match without sounding negative, as you said, did that match kind of expose any change for you or come as a kind of a wake-up call to shake up from - because you have been doing so well until that point of time?

[Rassie van der Dussen:]

I think we're not happy with our performance as a batting unit and as a batting collective. What is a positive that we didn't play our best cricket at all, especially from a batting sense, and we still managed to get a win, and that's always a positive. If you look at the Springboks, how they especially won against England, it was pretty scrappy, but they got across the line and for us, that's a similar result against Pakistan. So, we know we are a lot better than that. We know we want to be a lot more clinical in a chasing situation. It's very clear to us where we went wrong and the mistakes, we made so we're not shying away from that. And it gives us confidence knowing that we still got over the line and when we do get in that position again, hopefully the decision that we make and the options we take will be a lot better.

[Reporter:]

You're getting asked about the Springboks a lot, but you spoke about CSA, if you're not South African, you don't understand what it means. And we've seen a lot of ads where the boks are dedicating their performances to their hometowns, their grandparents, whatever. If you have to speak from your heart, what does it mean? How can you explain to other people what does it mean when you are South African to represent the country that you represent?

[Rassie van der Dussen:]

I think for me, obviously coming from a very divided background in the last 70 to 100 years, those sort of mindsets are still quite entrenched in a lot of communities and a lot of older generations. I think what the Springboks and what sport shows us is that as a country, as South Africa, when you do get things right and you do things the right way and what you can achieve, end of the day I think good things happen to good people. And that Springbok team, that's what they are. They're all hardworking, good South Africans with a real humility about them, a real hunger for success. And for me, it just certainly shows that when you're willing to put differences aside, what's possible for a country like ours.

[Reporter:]

I sort of want to ask you about your role, as far as the batting blueprint's concerned, do you think that you've been cast in the role of doing the dirty work and the work that you don't often necessarily get thanked for? You sort of set it up for [Heinrich] Klassen to monster it at the end and David [Miller] and whatever, and your job is to make it that time, see if the new ball absorbs pressure and nobody really says thank you for that.

[Rassie van der Dussen:]

Yeah, I think myself, Quin and Tim often joke about it, saying the reason Klaasen and the guys get millions at IPL, because they can come in and hit sixes at the back. But it's is a role that needs to be done, and from my side and other guys as well, we're really happy to be doing it. In our team, there's a sense of - what's the word I'm looking for? English, not my first language.

It's amazing to see what you can achieve when it doesn't matter who gets the credit or when you don't care who gets the credit for getting the win or getting over the line or putting in a good performance. So, there's a real sense of that in our team. And if that's going to help us win matches and win the World Cup, then I'll be happy not to be thanked for that.

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